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-- Ted Woolsey: A Man Ahead of His Time (http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16667)

Ted Woolsey: A Man Ahead of His Time

I'm sick and tired of this Woolsey bashing. I see it most in conversations about FFVI. Ted Woolsey was ahead of his time. Instead of just translating, he was one of the first I know of that tried to localize games. Like, taking out the jokes that only make sense in Japanese and putting in equivilent ones in English. Now you see that stuff left and right. He tried to make the games FUN for English speakers to read. Is that so effing WRONG?

Norman Denny (translator of Victor Hugo's Les Misérables) said in his forward that it's more important these days to translate the author's orginal intent than it is to translate his actual words. I agree with that (I wish I had the actual quote with me)

Don't get me wrong, he HAS messed stuff up ("Masamune" in Chrono Trigger? ), but now most companies are trying to do what he did, sooooo I like 'im. There's really no reason to get all mad about a less-than-accurate translation. Final Fantasy III (US) was a great game because it had good gameplay, story and characters.

I don't have any problems with his translations. As long as you can understand what's going on in the story, I don't care if the translation is 100% accurate to the Japanese version of the game. In fact, some of the mistranslations are better than the Japanese equivalents or are at least humorous because of how little sense they make. I don't know if Ted Woolsey was responsible for them, but "spoony bard" and "fighting when mist will freeze you with breath" are not worth missing. Also, some of Kefka's lines like the "I hate hate hate... you" were good translations.

Heh...yep.

DAMMIT 'Kishi, you were supposed to write a big long flaming post about how TW sucked major arse so I could write a reply and blah blah blah. YOU SCREWED IT UP!!!

Let's hope "The Man" does what YOU failed to do. >=|

Lol. But I agree. I think Ted Woolsey did a great job making the translations and I hate how everyone says "He sucks I can do better then him" I'm sick of that. I think this thread was a good idea Big ogre umaro, giving Woolsey the credit he always deserved. I mean the only bad part to his translations was that nintendo censored every game so no cussing and no holy.

Finally, some thread that doesn't bash Ted Woolsey or Square translations. Whew, these are quite rare nowadays.

I think he did lots of mistakes, and Nintendo suckers made his translation worse at various parts, but otherwise he still did a quality translation with even some sense of humor. And the English he uses there is a lot better than by some Ted Woolsey flamers whose English is like "f*** woosley!!!! ted wolsey suX0XrXXz @** he should die now y dont u die woolsey somebody killthat mofo!!!!!"

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Originally posted by Big Ogre Umaro
Let's hope "The Man" does what YOU failed to do. >=|

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
I think he did lots of mistakes, and Nintendo suckers made his translation worse at various parts, but otherwise he still did a quality translation with even some sense of humor. And the English he uses there is a lot better than by some Ted Woolsey flamers whose English is like "f*** woosley!!!! ted wolsey suX0XrXXz @** he should die now y dont u die woolsey somebody killthat mofo!!!!!"

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Originally posted by The Man
BOU, you can always count on me.

I don't like Woolsey because he changed many names that didn't need to be changed. I agree that many of the Japanese references would be incomprehensible to most Americans, and I'm very glad for "Ozzie" (which should be "Ozzy," but I'm sure Mr. Osbourne objected or something), "Slash" and "Flea" from Chrono Trigger, because the food references they replaced have little meaning for Americans.

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Originally posted by The Man
I also think Woolsey gave us many great lines. Even though it's weird, I like Cefca's "Wait, he says. Do I look like a waiter?" And FF6 wouldn't be nearly the same without such gems as "Son of a submariner! They'll pay for this..." "Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" "I hate^16 HATE YOU!" "Uwee, hee, hee! Game over! Don't tease the octopus, kids!" "You want to live in this world the way it is? No? Then do something about it!" "The end comes... beyond chaos..." "This is sickening! You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!" and so on. There are others, but I don't feel like bringing them forth from my subconscious right now; I've better things to do. Yes, Woolsey has some good lines.

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Originally posted by The Man
But we have to look at not only what he added to the games, but also what he subtracted from them. What I don't like is how he changed Tina to Terra (she's not earthy at all), Kappa to Imp, Cefca (or Cefka) to Kefka (it sounds too much like Kafka, as in Franz), Cayenne to Cyan, Final Heaven to Bum Rush, Mash to Sabin, Chrono to Crono, Grand Lion to Masamune, Efreet to Ifrit, Ramu to Ramuh, Cait Sith to Stray, Phantom Beast to Esper, Lethe to Lete, and the infamous "Jurassic pork soup" in Chrono Trigger. I admit that the "Holy" and "Death" changes weren't Woolsey's fault, which is why I haven't given him any flak for them here, but I disapprove of many of the other changes he was responsible for. A translator is supposed to translate. When a reference doesn't make sense in English, I think it's perfectly all right to insert something more appropriate, but only when a reference is there and doesn't make sense in translation. "Tina," for example, was just supposed to be a name, and it wasn't his place to insert an earth-like reference, especially when it doesn't fit the character; if it had been some Japanese culture reference that no Americans would pick up on, I would understand his change, but it wasn't.

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Originally posted by The Man
When I make death threats on Woolsey, I don't mean them. They're just a case of ironic exaggeration. I don't speak a word of Japanese, so I don't pretend that I could do a better job than he could, but if I knew the language, I'm sure I could. If I ever learn it, I'll prove myself to you.

I'm giving Woolsey his due, but the reason I've been so scathing towards him is that he's done some things that I feel detract heavily from the games. "Terra" sounds cool. On some other character than Tina. (It should've been placed on Aerith, who was supposed to have an earth-like name, anyway. This was not Woolsey's fault, since he wasn't around for FF7). Also, the only Woolsey game whose text I like through-and-through is Final Fantasy VI. Chrono Trigger has misplaced comma splices everywhere, and that irritates the hell out of me; Holy Sword Legend 2 was done in three weeks, so its sloppiness isn't entirely Woolsey's fault, but it still is lacking far too much for me to consider it a decent translation, even given the limited time he had to do it. Some things Woolsey has done piss me off to no end, which is why I've been flaming him so much. Apparently, this bothers some of you, so I'm sorry and will try to stop. I wasn't even aware of that until today.

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Originally posted by The Man
You're absolutely right. People who do that are full of shite. But I don't write things like "ted wolsey suX0XrXXz" in my posts; instead, my posts are well organized and use proper grammar and spelling, so I feel like I have a right to criticize him. I couldn't live with myself if I were responsible for such nongrammatical tripe, yet gave Woolsey flak for the mistakes he was responsible for. Yes, he has a sense of humor. But I don't know. I think his translations are just too cutesy for my tastes (I'm specifically thinking of Neko in Holy Sword Legend 2), which is probably why he irritates me so much.

I'm sorry for giving him so much flak. Between Kishi and myself, it was probably getting out of hand; BOU is right.

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Originally posted by The Man
Edit: Mog42, the FF"2" translation was done by three Japanese guys who thought they had a much better grasp on the English language than they actually did. Woolsey, obviously, was not one of them. For his sake, it's good that he wasn't; I felt the sentences in that game were way too short, even if "You spoony bard!" and "Fighting when mist will freeze you with Breath!" have become classics these days.

Peace
The Man

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Yeah, Ozzy Osbourne might get a bit mad at Ted Woolsey for that. Then we'd get one more of those who hate Woolsey, and that's what we don't want, do we? But the food names were pretty funny too.

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Yeah, those are all classics. And don't forget Locke's "This kid's loaded up for bear!" or Cayenne's "He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy".

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Or how about Sabin's "Listen, mr. Thou! Agh, now I'm starting to sound like you!" or "Do you think a little thing like the end of the world could slow me down?". Heh, they're great.

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Woolsey was also one who was doing FF5 Anthology translation, which Kishi keeps bragging for some reason. (Salsa is the only crappy translation in FF5... eww, a Princess Dipsauce!?)

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I can explain some of these to you. The Terra is to match up with Celes.

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In Japanese the name Tina might also mean something that the Japs understand but we English don't, so Woolsey made it sound a bit more fantasy-style.

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Kappa was Imp because I don't think the name Kappa is as clear to Americans as to Japs (well, I'm not Japs or American, but I don't have a clue who/what is Kappa),

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Kefka sounds better with k's instead of c's,

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Cyan was due to the lack of space (but he didn't think it through fully. Cayene would have fitted).

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Bum Rush was due to Nintendo's censoring requests (Heaven is too religional to be used according to Nintendo... the word "Heaven" was also censored in FF4. When it was originally "Watch me from the Heavens, Anna", it was censored into "Watch me from up there, Anna").

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Mash sounded a bit stupid so Woolsey wanted some Sabin's Cabin humor, probably.

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Chrono was turned into Crono because CT characters can have only 5 characters in their name, there wasn't enough space for Chrono.

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I prefer Masamune to Grand Lion. Ifrit and Ramuh are those that I've seen in FF3j, FF4 Chronicles, FF7, FF8 and FF9, and neither of those is by Woolsey.

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Cait Sith was censored in FF2 US as well. I don't know why.

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The censoring was removed in FF7 though, where Cait Sith is a playable character (that's not a spoiler! he's not even a secret character).

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For Esper, the summon things needed some fantasy-style name, and Woolsey made that up.

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Square thought the Esper idea was a good way of expressing the "Summon monsters" or "Phantom beasts", so in FF8 they call them Guardian Forces, in FF9 Square calls them Eidolons and I think they're Aeons in FFX.

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The Lethe thing wasn't that back.

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And the Ghastla/ghastly/Ghastra didn't sound too good to me. Gestahl for me, thank you.

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I didn't notice the Jurassic Pork soup in CT, but lol, that was a good one!

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For Holy and Death, yeah, blame Nintendo.

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They also changed Deathguise of FF6 into Doomgaze.

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Holy was either Pearl or White (the spell Holy to Pearl, Holy Lance to Pearl Lance, Holy Dragon to White Dragon) and Death was usually Doom (Vanish-Doom instead of Vanish-Death).

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I'm amazed Ted was able to keep Goddess statues. That IS indeed religional, so if Nintendo had noticed that, it would have become "Mistress statues" or something like that, ugh.

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The spell Crusader was originally "Doomsday" or "Jihad", not sure which, but it was censored by Nintendo.

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[snip]

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Yes, FF7 wasn't by Woolsey. And don't make quick decisions of the game until you've played it. It's Aeris in FF7 US, and Aerith in FF7 Japanese. I don't think Aeris was meant to mean the air, I think it's pronounced like "heiress", and that suits her because... whoops, that's a spoiler so I won't tell you. I haven't played the Holy Sword Legend, so I can't tell. About Woolsey, yeah I agree he did several mistakes here and there, and it's ok for me to listen how you criticize him... for a certain limit. But you've been doing it for over a week now so I'm starting to get fed up with that.

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That's right. Ted Woolsey is American, I believe. The three stooges who translated FF4 were all Japanese. None of them was Woolsey. Some of the lines in FF2 US were so crappy that Square kept them in FF4 Chronicles. Combined with Nintendo's censoring requests, ugh. That's one translation with short sentences and BIG problems!

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Whoa, now there's a lot to reply. I'm too tired to put up [ quote ] -tabs all around so I'll just reply to what you said. BTW Damn, there's so many threads and you're posting in them all so I don't remember which is which and soon I'm going OOC in all of them. Yikes.

For "he could be my friend if he weren't my enemy" was Sabin's or Shadow's line, yeah sorry. Other good line was Locke's (I think) comment about Shadow, "he could slice his mama's throat open for a nickel". How on Earth did Nintendo approve that!? "Was that a bad person?" was quite naive and foolish for Terra, but what can you say about a person who is totally confused about the events and out of memory? Especially when she was told that she's an officer of the Empire and Kefka was a high-ranking officer of the Empire.

I don't know who did FF5 Anthology names, but there is a chance Woolsey didn't do it. When Square was making FF5 for US SNES, Woolsey did a base for that translation but he quit that project because Project FF5 US SNES got cancelled. But whe FF5 Anthology was to get released, the translators used the work Woolsey started to make up the script. Butz, Lenna, Cara, Sarisa, Exdeath, Syldra, Cleft of Dimension and Dorgan were a lot better than Bartz, Reina, Krile, Salsa, X-Death, Hydra, N-Zone and Drogan.

About FF6, can't you get over that Kafka thing? It was probably a coincidence and I doubt Woolsey even knew Franz Kafka. I mean, Kefka was a lunatic and Kafka wrote thoughtful short-stories. Kefka had no thoughtful stuff at all (that "***** / HATE" -thing 17 times in the Floating Continent proves it). And you know, soon someone will make a thread called "You know you've been playing too much FF6 when..." and someone writes "when you get scared the hell out of your mind when you hear the name Kafka, thinking Kefka is alive and trying to kill you".

I don't think Sabin is for the Spanish thing. Actually, I think that "Sabin's Cabin" thing does make the most sense. Mash suits him too, as it's almost like Smash. But would you be rather named after your habit of Smashing or after your habit of living in a Cabin?

About adding more letters to names, it sounds easy at first but they must fit the longer names to all menus and all battle menus. It will be easier said than done. And in some cases, they just have to move boxes and other things too much.

I think Square preferred Ramuh and Ifrit over Ramu and Efreet (I prefer Ramuh and Ifrit, at least) so they kept them in the future translations as well. I think Cait Sith was Panther in FF2 US. Jihad was censored because it is religional. It means the Holy War of Muslims.

For Aeris, you should just play FF7 to understand her story better. You can't understand stuff with a single spoiler. "Unfortunately, nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself". The name heiress isn't directly related to (SPOILER)her death.

I would probably like to play those Holy Sword Legend games, but I'm really busy with school stuff and when I'm not studying, I'll try to finish Chrono Cross. After Chrono Cross I'll try FF Tactics and I'll play FFX when it comes out to Europe. So I'll have plenty of stuff to do. Sorry.

FF4 Chronicles keeps funny dialogue, but I really doubt they would keep any grammatic errors, typos or mistranslations. "You spoony bard!" is a grammatically correct English sentence, but "Fighting when mist will freeze your breath" isn't. Hmm. This brings some other ridiculous lines to my mind. "All your base are belong to us!" - line from a game with the same name. "Off course!" - FF Tactics. "I had a good feeling" - FF Tactics. (it was either that or "It gave me a good feeling") And the worst in FF Tactics, on an FF7 cameo, a thief yells to Aeris: "Are you selling flowers? Try selling your body instead!" Ugh, that's almost as sick as FF4 J2e's "So you are worried about your little wh**e?"

Well, I got places to go and your PM to reply, so I'll hurry up and send this post.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Whoa, now there's a lot to reply. I'm too tired to put up [ quote ] -tabs all around so I'll just reply to what you said. BTW Damn, there's so many threads and you're posting in them all so I don't remember which is which and soon I'm going OOC in all of them. Yikes.

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For "he could be my friend if he weren't my enemy" was Sabin's or Shadow's line, yeah sorry. Other good line was Locke's (I think) comment about Shadow, "he could slice his mama's throat open for a nickel". How on Earth did Nintendo approve that!?

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"Was that a bad person?" was quite naive and foolish for Terra, but what can you say about a person who is totally confused about the events and out of memory? Especially when she was told that she's an officer of the Empire and Kefka was a high-ranking officer of the Empire.

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I don't know who did FF5 Anthology names, but there is a chance Woolsey didn't do it. When Square was making FF5 for US SNES, Woolsey did a base for that translation but he quit that project because Project FF5 US SNES got cancelled. But whe FF5 Anthology was to get released, the translators used the work Woolsey started to make up the script. Butz, Lenna, Cara, Sarisa, Exdeath, Syldra, Cleft of Dimension and Dorgan were a lot better than Bartz, Reina, Krile, Salsa, X-Death, Hydra, N-Zone and Drogan.

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About FF6, can't you get over that Kafka thing? It was probably a coincidence and I doubt Woolsey even knew Franz Kafka. I mean, Kefka was a lunatic and Kafka wrote thoughtful short-stories. Kefka had no thoughtful stuff at all (that "***** / HATE" -thing 17 times in the Floating Continent proves it). And you know, soon someone will make a thread called "You know you've been playing too much FF6 when..." and someone writes "when you get scared the hell out of your mind when you hear the name Kafka, thinking Kefka is alive and trying to kill you".

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I don't think Sabin is for the Spanish thing.

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Actually, I think that "Sabin's Cabin" thing does make the most sense.

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Mash suits him too, as it's almost like Smash. But would you be rather named after your habit of Smashing or after your habit of living in a Cabin?

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About adding more letters to names, it sounds easy at first but they must fit the longer names to all menus and all battle menus. It will be easier said than done. And in some cases, they just have to move boxes and other things too much.

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I think Square preferred Ramuh and Ifrit over Ramu and Efreet (I prefer Ramuh and Ifrit, at least) so they kept them in the future translations as well.

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I think Cait Sith was Panther in FF2 US. Jihad was censored because it is religional. It means the Holy War of Muslims.

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For Aeris, you should just play FF7 to understand her story better. You can't understand stuff with a single spoiler. "Unfortunately, nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself". The name heiress isn't directly related to (SPOILER)her death.

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I would probably like to play those Holy Sword Legend games, but I'm really busy with school stuff and when I'm not studying, I'll try to finish Chrono Cross. After Chrono Cross I'll try FF Tactics and I'll play FFX when it comes out to Europe. So I'll have plenty of stuff to do. Sorry.

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FF4 Chronicles keeps funny dialogue, but I really doubt they would keep any grammatic errors, typos or mistranslations. "You spoony bard!" is a grammatically correct English sentence, but "Fighting when mist will freeze your breath" isn't. Hmm. This brings some other ridiculous lines to my mind. "All your base are belong to us!" - line from a game with the same name.

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"Off course!" - FF Tactics. "I had a good feeling" - FF Tactics. (it was either that or "It gave me a good feeling") And the worst in FF Tactics, on an FF7 cameo, a thief yells to Aeris: "Are you selling flowers? Try selling your body instead!" Ugh, that's almost as sick as FF4 J2e's "So you are worried about your little wh**e?"

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Well, I got places to go and your PM to reply,

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so I'll hurry up and send this post.

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Haha, I'm posting without reading all the replies first, 'cause I'm lazy.

I liked that he "localized" jokes and stuff. That was good. I just don't see why he needed to change names and stuff.

The names didn't bother me that much. After all, you can rename your characters if you don't like the way their names were translated. (except for characters that aren't in your party)

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Originally posted by mog42
The names didn't bother me that much. After all, you can rename your characters if you don't like the way their names were translated. (except for characters that aren't in your party)

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Originally posted by Daryl
I liked that he "localized" jokes and stuff. That was good. I just don't see why he needed to change names and stuff.

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Edit by Daryl: *points at your OOC comment* That kind of discussion goes in PMs, just so you know, Man. Check your in-box.

As a side note, a TON of stuff was changed most likely because it couldn't fit within the text limit, and in order to change it, they'd need to squeeze the font or stretch the windows, which is mainly impossible. Stuff like Cait Sith would have to become CaitSth, Pheonix tail/Down to PhnixDwn, HiPotion to HiPtion, Catoblepas to Catblps, Fallen Angel to FllnAngl, and all the spells (Blizzaga, for example) to Blzzga. And I'd have the alternate to any of those any day of the week. And then there's all that Nintendo censorship stuff. So I think the guy did a good job with what he had.

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Originally posted by omnitarian
As a side note, a TON of stuff was changed most likely because it couldn't fit within the text limit, and in order to change it, they'd need to squeeze the font or stretch the windows, which is mainly impossible. Stuff like Cait Sith would have to become CaitSth, Pheonix tail/Down to PhnixDwn, HiPotion to HiPtion, Catoblepas to Catblps, Fallen Angel to FllnAngl, and all the spells (Blizzaga, for example) to Blzzga. And I'd have the alternate to any of those any day of the week. And then there's all that Nintendo censorship stuff. So I think the guy did a good job with what he had.

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I wonder if when Ted Woosley was translating/localizing if he knew that there where people who were going to start a great big conversation/argument about the job he did. Poor guy, he works works works all day long and what thanks does he get? Thank you Ted Woosley because I'm too lazy to get up and go to Japanese 101 most days.

(*created the OOC tag* )

The "unacceptable" name changes are a matter of preference, as you proved yourself in your admitting that you like the names of the three dopes in CT.

You have to realize that, at the time, video games weren't as important, in terms of being art forms, as they are now (of course, nowadays, video games are mostly just clones of each other anyway). I don't think anyone at SQUARE US (especially Woolsey) even began to realize at that point that anyone would find out that stuff was changed from the Japanese version. There wasn't really a medium through which fans could really find this kind of information. So, I think that's part of the reason Woolsey didn't mind messing with the names to suit his own liking.

Also, I like Ted Woolsey because of Shadow Madness. I love Shadow Madness. I think that, if it had better graphics, it could have changed everything. I mean...the graphics SUCKED. Really badly. I freaking loved it, though. I wish more American/European companies would make RPGs...but the ones that do seem to keep losing money...

EDIT: Found a cool interview, but it's mostly about Shadow Madness than anything else, and it's pre-release, so he makes it sound cooler than it is.

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Gaming Intelligence Agency: Just wondering ... are you aware of how many people you confused with Final Fantasy VI's "loaded for bear"?

Ted Woolsey: Yep! I love it! (laughs) Part of translating is this sort of "stream of consciousness" thing that has to kick in and lead you through the process. Strange where it takes you sometimes!

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Originally posted by Big Ogre Umaro
(*created the OOC tag* )

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You have to realize that, at the time, video games weren't as important, in terms of being art forms, as they are now

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(of course, nowadays, video games are mostly just clones of each other anyway).

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I don't think anyone at SQUARE US (especially Woolsey) even began to realize at that point that anyone would find out that stuff was changed from the Japanese version.

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There wasn't really a medium through which fans could really find this kind of information.

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So, I think that's part of the reason Woolsey didn't mind messing with the names to suit his own liking.

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Also, I like Ted Woolsey because of Shadow Madness. I love Shadow Madness. I think that, if it had better graphics, it could have changed everything. I mean...the graphics SUCKED. Really badly. I freaking loved it, though. I wish more American/European companies would make RPGs...but the ones that do seem to keep losing money...

EDIT: Found a cool interview, but it's mostly about Shadow Madness than anything else, and it's pre-release, so he makes it sound cooler than it is.

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Gaming Intelligence Agency: Just wondering ... are you aware of how many people you confused with Final Fantasy VI's "loaded for bear"?

Ted Woolsey: Yep! I love it! (laughs) Part of translating is this sort of "stream of consciousness" thing that has to kick in and lead you through the process. Strange where it takes you sometimes!

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I wonder if he would have told the truth if they had asked him about the graphics?

GIA: How are the graphics on SM, Ted?

Ted: Well, I'd rather eat four pounds of my own droppings than look at them for more than three minutes, Andy.

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Out of Character, initially (for RPing forums like Magestar), then Out of Context. Someone would have done it if I didn't (*did the spoiler tag, too, I think, although it was inspired by 'Kishi*), but I did it so I feel special.

Ehhh, yeah, I think we're agreed. Man, I wish I had some irrational fool to argue with. I want CONTROVERSY, dammit.

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Originally posted by Big Ogre Umaro
Out of Character, initially (for RPing forums like Magestar), then Out of Context. Someone would have done it if I didn't (*did the spoiler tag, too, I think, although it was inspired by 'Kishi*), but I did it so I feel special.

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Ehhh, yeah, I think we're agreed. Man, I wish I had some irrational fool to argue with. I want CONTROVERSY, dammit.

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Whoa, you've listed the things you would have wanted different in FF6 at least 3 times, The Man

I kinda ignored the Fenix Down thing. (the reviving Esper is called Phoenix, BTW) That was probably because StarCraft has a hero called Fenix (not Phoenix) and Phoenix is translated as "Feeniks" or "Fenix" in Finnish. Though they're pronounced the same way. Ramuh sounds better than Ramu. And also with pronouncing. Ra-MOOOOOOOO. I'm a cow! Ra-MOOOO!!!!! For the fire monster, I prefer Ifrit but I pronounce it like Efreet. You know, I think Square really considered Woolsey's changes good, because they kept them in later FFs too. Ramuh was Ramuh in FF7-9, and Ifrit was Ifrit there too. Bahamut's Sunflare was changed into Mega Flare in PSX FFs, and Ifrit's Inferno was turned into Hell Fire (or Flames of Hell in FF9). Oh, and Fenix Down is called Phoenix Down in the PSX FFs. FF8 and FF9 also gave us an extra reviving item called Phoenix Pinion. I agree with omnitarian and the others about item name changes. There was not enough space for that (Japanese can fit longer words in smaller space but the English can't) and it would have been a bad idea to squeeze letters by making the fonts thinner or something. I remember how J2e had Gilbert squeezed to the screen (there was really space for 6 chars in name, so it'd have been Glbert), and it looked damn ugly!

For your question about why FF5 was cancelled, I think Nintendo decided not to release it after all. Bloody @$$holes! We could ask the same question about FF2j and FF3j, why didn't Square release them too? I think FF2j wasn't released because Nintendo thought it was too much like FF1 (stupid idiots. they should have played it for more than 15 minutes, so they would have realised how different they are), FF3j wasn't released because they thought the job system is sooooooo hard and complicated to Americans. FF5 was maybe unreleased for the same reason. Another reason might be Nintendo's claim that it was too much like FF4 (it's BS, they should have played the game for longer than 15 minutes, again).

Ted Woosely is definitley not the best translator. It is the translator's job to translate and not to change aroung the names of important people, important diolauge, and whatnot. But he is a translator, and an ok one. You see, any translator who can translate something, and the reader being able to know very well what is happening in the [whatever he translated] is a good enough translator to me. I don't have too many gripes about Ol' Woos, but one sticks out like a sore thumb:

Changing Catoblepas's name to Shoat. This might not have been Woosley's fault, but I'm almost darn sure it is. Not many people know what a Catoblepas is, but I do, so it really bothers me. What in the world is a "shoat," anyway?

But Ted's not a truly bad translator. At least he was able to display english during battles, unlike a certain FF5 rom I own (cringes). And, at least you can follow the storlyine well, unlike the infamous Zerowing opening movie.

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Originally posted by Moose Knight
Ted Woosely is definitley not the best translator. It is the translator's job to translate and not to change aroung the names of important people, important diolauge, and whatnot.

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But he is a translator, and an ok one. You see, any translator who can translate something, and the reader being able to know very well what is happening in the [whatever he translated] is a good enough translator to me.

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I don't have too many gripes about Ol' Woos, but one sticks out like a sore thumb:

Changing Catoblepas's name to Shoat. This might not have been Woosley's fault, but I'm almost darn sure it is. Not many people know what a Catoblepas is, but I do, so it really bothers me. What in the world is a "shoat," anyway?

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But Ted's not a truly bad translator. At least he was able to display english during battles, unlike a certain FF5 rom I own (cringes). And, at least you can follow the storlyine well, unlike the infamous Zerowing opening movie.

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OOC:	And yep. Zero Wing's opening movie is impossible to follow, but at least it's a good source of fun. I'm sure the person(s) who tlansrated it, however, aren't having too much fun anymore.

yeah, play through legend of dragoon just once and you'll appreciate woosley games a whole lot more. i like localization. not necessarily for me, but i like games to be liked, and when a game has a good translation and i know a lot of people are going to like it, then i like it more. i don't mind word for word translations myself, but i think what woosley did with ff6 was alright. of course, i don't know what it would have been like had he not translated it the way he did, so...all i know is that ff6 is my fave, so...

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"Catoblepas" wouldn't have fit in eight letters, however. The Phantom Beasts' names were alotted only eight. What is a Catoblepas, anyway? I only like it 'cuz it sounds cooler, I hate to admit.

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Personally, I don't mind all of his wacky jokes (e.g., "'Wait,' he says. Do I look like a waiter?" and "Son of a submariner!")

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Originally posted by Moose Knight
Shoat was based 100% off Catoblepas. In a project for my Latin class, a friend and I were looking up mythical creatures, and Catoblepas came along. Its description basically said, "A bull who is almost always looking downward. However, should it look upward, any object it stares at will be turned to stone." If that's not Shoat, I don't know what is. Yes, I know [Catoblepas] doesn't fit, but he could have shortened it like he did "Fenix Down." But not call it shoat. While Ted's at it, why not butcher the other espers by calling the Pheonix esper "Pidgeon", and Shiva Ice Lady. Which I'm glad he didn't, but that's just an example of what he did to Catoblepas.

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Really? I absolutley despised Kefka's lines. For me, I would have enjoyed FF6 a lot more had Kefka actually been serious. Of course, Woosley didn't create Kefka's personallity, but his corny lines certainly were made by T. W.

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I don't want games I play to be "localized," or whatever. I want to play them exactly how they came from Japan. I don't care if there are jokes I won't get or references to Japanese culture I won't understand. However, this will never happen, so playing the game in English is the next best thing. Understand? I thought not.

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Originally posted by Moose Knight
I don't want games I play to be "localized," or whatever. I want to play them exactly how they came from Japan. I don't care if there are jokes I won't get or references to Japanese culture I won't understand. However, this will never happen, so playing the game in English is the next best thing. Understand? I thought not.

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I'm here to defend Woolsey!

Hiya! I'm really tired to write an essay but I guess I'll just try to write a long defending case.

I agree with what BOU said here (unless he was just joking), and I think Woolsey did good work. Some stuff are censored by Nintendo, so let's flame the big bad Nes company for that. But not Woolsey. FF6 was still a quality game with excellent storyline, despite this messing up from Nintendo. Even FF2 US (FF4 easy type) had an excellent storyline despite the messing up with translations.

Woolsey wasn't lazy, despite what you say. He gave all his heart to this translation project, and that can be seen in the way that he did not only translate it, he localized it. Some of you say that's blasphemy for the storyline, but it improves the quality. Just like BOU said, if we were given a game where the story goes just by Japanese culture, it wouldn't manage that well in the US. If J2e was allowed to Americanize FF4 hard type translation, why wasn't Ted Woolsey?

Ted Woolsey did lots of his lines very well and gave them unique ideas. Word-play (wait-waiter, the world is Square etc), Star Wars cameos, jokes about Beavis and Butthead, some funny stuff, all that to make the story more lively. Most of them worked pretty well. In some of the cases, he even used Nintendo's censorship and language restrictions to make some funny lines (like "You son of a submariner!"). Oh hell. Ted even made fun of FF2 US translators! There's one scene in battle where Terra shouts: "Stop swooning, you guys!" Unfortunately, there are some stupid lines too, but what can you expect from a company which hardly had their US company set up yet? That translation was still ahead of its time and good quality. It was surely better than Final Fantasy Tactics translation Squaresoft managed to pull later. However, compared to the excellent translations of Final Fantasies VII, VIII and IX, the translation of VI's falls a bit short.

As a side-note, I'd like to defend Woolsey's Masamune thing. In Chrono Cross, Woolsey's idea was key to one weapon translation. There's Masamune again, and it's a bit katana-style, actually! The Masamune of CC has something do with Masa, Mune and Doreen but I won't spoil it. But with Grand and Lion, and Dream, that would have looked pretty bad name for a mighty weapon. Grand Dream Lion? Bleh.

One thing that I love about Woolsey's translation is the deep-ness. So far FF6 has the most tear-scenes I've seen. Sure, Uematsu's suberb music helps very much, but there are scenes when just the dialogue between the characters gets us sad. You might say that it's sad because the characters are so well-designed, not because of Woolsey's translating. But remember, Woolsey did translate the characters' dialogue and through that dialogue, their personalities are also reflected. That was really great work. I don't remember how many times I cried during FF6, but that was certainly more than in any other FF game (probably around 4-6 times). But when I was reading Sky Render's translation, which is said to be the "real" and "accurate" translation, I haven't noticed that much emotional text or deep stuff really. Sky Render's translation is more swallow. Some characters like Relm are also completely ruined due to their crappy translation by Sky Render.

Damn, I was just about to get this post going well. But now I gotta go. I might edit this more later. Meh.

Re: I'm here to defend Woolsey!

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Hiya! I'm really tired to write an essay but I guess I'll just try to write a long defending case.

I agree with what BOU said here (unless he was just joking), and I think Woolsey did good work. Some stuff are censored by Nintendo, so let's flame the big bad Nes company for that. But not Woolsey. FF6 was still a quality game with excellent storyline, despite this messing up from Nintendo. Even FF2 US (FF4 easy type) had an excellent storyline despite the messing up with translations.

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Woolsey wasn't lazy, despite what you say.

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He gave all his heart to this translation project, and that can be seen in the way that he did not only translate it, he localized it. Some of you say that's blasphemy for the storyline, but it improves the quality. Just like BOU said, if we were given a game where the story goes just by Japanese culture, it wouldn't manage that well in the US. If J2e was allowed to Americanize FF4 hard type translation, why wasn't Ted Woolsey?

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Ted Woolsey did lots of his lines very well and gave them unique ideas. Word-play (wait-waiter, the world is Square etc),

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Star Wars cameos, jokes about Beavis and Butthead, some funny stuff, all that to make the story more lively. Most of them worked pretty well.

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In some of the cases, he even used Nintendo's censorship and language restrictions to make some funny lines (like "You son of a submariner!").

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Oh hell. Ted even made fun of FF2 US translators! There's one scene in battle where Terra shouts: "Stop swooning, you guys!"

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Unfortunately, there are some stupid lines too, but what can you expect from a company which hardly had their US company set up yet?

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That translation was still ahead of its time and good quality.

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It was surely better than Final Fantasy Tactics translation Squaresoft managed to pull later.

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However, compared to the excellent translations of Final Fantasies VII, VIII and IX, the translation of VI's falls a bit short.

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As a side-note, I'd like to defend Woolsey's Masamune thing. In Chrono Cross, Woolsey's idea was key to one weapon translation. There's Masamune again, and it's a bit katana-style, actually! The Masamune of CC has something do with Masa, Mune and Doreen but I won't spoil it. But with Grand and Lion, and Dream, that would have looked pretty bad name for a mighty weapon. Grand Dream Lion? Bleh.

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One thing that I love about Woolsey's translation is the deep-ness. So far FF6 has the most tear-scenes I've seen. Sure, Uematsu's suberb music helps very much, but there are scenes when just the dialogue between the characters gets us sad. You might say that it's sad because the characters are so well-designed, not because of Woolsey's translating. But remember, Woolsey did translate the characters' dialogue and through that dialogue, their personalities are also reflected. That was really great work. I don't remember how many times I cried during FF6, but that was certainly more than in any other FF game (probably around 4-6 times).

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But when I was reading Sky Render's translation, which is said to be the "real" and "accurate" translation, I haven't noticed that much emotional text or deep stuff really. Sky Render's translation is more swallow.

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Some characters like Relm are also completely ruined due to their crappy translation by Sky Render.

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Damn, I was just about to get this post going well. But now I gotta go. I might edit this more later. Meh.

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I liked his games. Localization is great.I wouldn't like a game that I didn't understand, or just think was blatently not funny when it supposed to be, just because it's made for a different culture.

No, The Man. That post above is an article/essay, so I'm not dedicating it to anyone. So I'm not especially talking to you. It's for all who read it (FF6 players, EoFF forumers, Ted Woolsey fans & haters etc).

Now this following in this post is for you, The Man. There's loads of Americanized stuff that would sound weird in the ears of the Japanese in FF4 J2e. That William Shatner was one thing, but I'm sure there are more. I can't remember much of them. Rydia's "I hope you don't mean that, because if you do, I'd end your reproductive years right here!" or Edge/Cid's "You bastard!", "Bastard? Just for your information, I come from the finest families. Only selective breeding can produce noble individuals like me", "How long did you rehearse that line!? Who the hell is this pompous ass!?" or stuff which Palom is hinting to that girl at the ending sequence, are some which I think are Americanized.

The reason why Woolsey changed the names are because they sound weird in English. He did that in CT too, because the food-names would sound stupid, and Jacky doesn't sound close to as good as Magus, and Kaeru has only meaning for Japanese (Kaeru = Frog in English, so it was changed to that in US version). Banon is Banan in Sky Render's older translation. Bannan in the newer one.

You know, those things that you mentioned were censored because of Nintendo's restrictions, and they are really minor things. [SARCASM]Oohh, Woolsey didn't tell us how mother of Edgar and Sabin died so I hate FF6! How can anyone screw up like that!? ARGH Grr I hate Woolsey and FF6. I'm such a stupid bastard that I hate FF6 and TW for the lack of that line![/SARCASM]

Masamune makes more sense in CC, because there Masamune/Mastermune actually is a katana. Crono's main weapon was a Rainbow Sword.

If you blame Woolsey for removing stuff like Celes's execution or Sabin's mom dying while giving birth to her son, or blame him for adding stupid stuff like "Sabin's Cabin" or "Wait, he says. Do I look like a waiter?", then I've got a list of stuff where I blame SR.

- Changing Sabin to Mash
- Changing Cayenne or Cyan to Cayene
- Changing Gestahl or Ghastla to Gastora
- Changing Phantom Beast or Esper to Eidolon
- Changing General or Commander to Shogun (WTF!? This makes no sense!)
- Changing "You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet" (lol) to "Your answers do not satisfy me"
- Removing all Star Wars jokes when Locke rescues Celes
- Removing Beavis & Butthead "Fire, fire! Heh heh heh..." comment
- Removing "Son of a submariner"
- Removing "The world is Square"
- Removing "Welcome to my barbecue"
- Changing Kefka's whatever-he-said in Floating Continent into 17 F-words
- Adding a porno magazine at Cyan's tool manual set. (I doubt this was in FF6 Japanese. I think SR added it here because it was in FF4 too)

I know you could also tell me the same comment of [SARCASM]Ooh, Kefka didn't welcome to his barbecue so I hate the game!!!! Meh, how stupid I am!!"[/SARCASM] which I said about your TW-hating, but understand that Sky Render is doing an unofficial and note, dirty (I'll yell **** at you 17 times if you disagree) version of FF6's translation. Woolsey's translation is official and it's approved by Squaresoft and even the oppressing Nintendo. Besides, as far as I know, it's pretty much illegal to hack a ROM and mess them up. I wonder what Square would like if they knew Sky Render was turning their Japanese game into a foul-mouthed ass game? Now there's a good clue for me to start blackmailing Mr. Shit-Render.

And yeah, I meant shallow, not swallow. For your thing about seeing it in-game, yeah you agree until I come to my next point. I recently read through FF6 script (Ted Woolsey's translation) which was transcribed by Noah E. Sproat and I still saw many sad parts there, and although I didn't begin to cry this time, they still felt very sad. In Sky Render's version, I found the emotional talks boring and stupid. And his sense of comedy doesn't quite appeal to me. If I wanted to see a brat who talks of herself in 3rd person, I'd smack it out of SR. And if I wanted to hear a crazy guy saying 17 ****s on a row, I'd go watch South Park the movie. Thank you.

BTW I might continue that essay when I get time to write more of it, but not today. Today you just gotta be satisfied with my reply That's because there's lots of physics homework I gotta do for tomorrow. Well, we can only hope the essay of Woolsey in this thread gets finished some day.


EDIT: Woolsey did actually break Nintendo's censorship rules. In FF6, Edgar says "What the... !?" at some part. Nintendo guys wouldn't allow that, because [SARCASM]it's so dangerous that kids see that. They might think he's trying to say "What the hell!?" because he clearly is. What else would he say, "What the submarine?" maybe?[/SARCASM] and when you've fought Kefka in Narshe to save the Esper and Terra transforms, one guy in Narshe says "Narshe is a neutral city! We don't want war, but that #&@%$ Gestahl won't listen!". In CT, Ted also put in some lines that Nintendo didn't notice, like "Who the heck are you!?" (when Lucca rescues Crono from execution... yes, Crono is getting executed and that's not censored) and "Darn it Robo! Stop pretending you don't care when you're really sad!". I think Nintendo was so strict that normally they didn't even allow the characters to say "shucks", "crap" or "damn".

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
No, The Man. That post above is an article/essay, so I'm not dedicating it to anyone. So I'm not especially talking to you. It's for all who read it (FF6 players, EoFF forumers, Ted Woolsey fans & haters etc).

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Now this following in this post is for you, The Man. There's loads of Americanized stuff that would sound weird in the ears of the Japanese in FF4 J2e. That William Shatner was one thing, but I'm sure there are more. I can't remember much of them. Rydia's "I hope you don't mean that, because if you do, I'd end your reproductive years right here!" or Edge/Cid's "You bastard!", "Bastard? Just for your information, I come from the finest families. Only selective breeding can produce noble individuals like me", "How long did you rehearse that line!? Who the hell is this pompous ass!?" or stuff which Palom is hinting to that girl at the ending sequence, are some which I think are Americanized.

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The reason why Woolsey changed the names are because they sound weird in English. He did that in CT too, because the food-names would sound stupid, and Jacky doesn't sound close to as good as Magus, and Kaeru has only meaning for Japanese (Kaeru = Frog in English, so it was changed to that in US version).

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Banon is Banan in Sky Render's older translation. Bannan in the newer one.

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You know, those things that you mentioned were censored because of Nintendo's restrictions, and they are really minor things. [SARCASM]Oohh, Woolsey didn't tell us how mother of Edgar and Sabin died so I hate FF6! How can anyone screw up like that!? ARGH Grr I hate Woolsey and FF6. I'm such a stupid bastard that I hate FF6 and TW for the lack of that line![/SARCASM]

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Masamune makes more sense in CC, because there Masamune/Mastermune actually is a katana. Crono's main weapon was a Rainbow Sword.

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If you blame Woolsey for removing stuff like Celes's execution or Sabin's mom dying while giving birth to her son, or blame him for adding stupid stuff like "Sabin's Cabin" or "Wait, he says. Do I look like a waiter?", then I've got a list of stuff where I blame SR.

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- Changing Sabin to Mash

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- Changing Cayenne or Cyan to Cayene

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- Changing Gestahl or Ghastla to Gastora

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- Changing Phantom Beast or Esper to Eidolon

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- Changing General or Commander to Shogun (WTF!? This makes no sense!)

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- Changing "You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet" (lol) to "Your answers do not satisfy me"

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- Removing all Star Wars jokes when Locke rescues Celes

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- Removing Beavis & Butthead "Fire, fire! Heh heh heh..." comment

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- Removing "Son of a submariner"

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- Removing "The world is Square"

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- Removing "Welcome to my barbecue"

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- Changing Kefka's whatever-he-said in Floating Continent into 17 F-words

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- Adding a porno magazine at Cyan's tool manual set. (I doubt this was in FF6 Japanese. I think SR added it here because it was in FF4 too)

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I know you could also tell me the same comment of [SARCASM]Ooh, Kefka didn't welcome to his barbecue so I hate the game!!!! Meh, how stupid I am!!"[/SARCASM] which I said about your TW-hating, but understand that Sky Render is doing an unofficial and note, dirty (I'll yell f*** at you 17 times if you disagree) version of FF6's translation.

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Woolsey's translation is official and it's approved by Squaresoft and even the oppressing Nintendo. Besides, as far as I know, it's pretty much illegal to hack a ROM and mess them up.

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I wonder what Square would like if they knew Sky Render was turning their Japanese game into a foul-mouthed ass game? Now there's a good clue for me to start blackmailing Mr. Sh**-Render.

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And yeah, I meant shallow, not swallow. For your thing about seeing it in-game, yeah you agree until I come to my next point. I recently read through FF6 script (Ted Woolsey's translation) which was transcribed by Noah E. Sproat and I still saw many sad parts there, and although I didn't begin to cry this time, they still felt very sad. In Sky Render's version, I found the emotional talks boring and stupid. And his sense of comedy doesn't quite appeal to me. If I wanted to see a brat who talks of herself in 3rd person, I'd smack it out of SR. And if I wanted to hear a crazy guy saying 17 f***s on a row, I'd go watch South Park the movie. Thank you.

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BTW I might continue that essay when I get time to write more of it, but not today. Today you just gotta be satisfied with my reply That's because there's lots of physics homework I gotta do for tomorrow. Well, we can only hope the essay of Woolsey in this thread gets finished some day.

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I've got just a few words here:

f*** woosley!!!! ted wolsey suX0XrXXz @** he should die now y dont u die woolsey somebody killthat mofo!!!!!"

*flees*

EDIT: Just something else I thought of... this really should go into the Gen. Squaresoft forum since there are several Squaresoft games being mentioned here *nods*

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Originally posted by Spatvark
I've got just a few words here:

f*** woosley!!!! ted wolsey suX0XrXXz @** he should die now y dont u die woolsey somebody killthat mofo!!!!!"

*flees*

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EDIT: Just something else I thought of... this really should go into the Gen. Squaresoft forum since there are several Squaresoft games being mentioned here *nods*

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Heh, hopefully people will work out it was just a joke, but who knows... I even directly quoted that from near the beginning of this thread...

Yeah, that line Spatvark quoted was when I was telling what some idiots who flame Woolsey for no reason say

About Shogun, it's as stupid as Hiryuu and Reina. Japanese names which look cool when you don't know what the heck they mean.

About the script stuff, let me get you something straight. I did read up through that script of Sky Render and I was pretty disappointed with that. Most lines it had were a bit similar to Woolsey's though slightly worse. Meh. Some stuff were absolutely rubbish. I only liked the Eidolon translation but since that's gone, I guess I can wipe my a** on that script. And nope, I didn't read FF6 Noah's script before finishing the game. I think I had finished the game at least twice when I first read it. Besides, the fact that I had played Woolsey's version of the game didn't affect my opinion. Oooooh no no no. Because both still tell the same story. But I didn't find anything better in SR's version, only worse stuff. Maybe it is a retranslation, but shouldn't it try to be BETTER than the competitive (TW's) translation???

If you think I haven't played Sky Render's translation, then you're dead wrong. I indeed played the version of "My Insane Project" which was like an alpha version of "The End of Fantasy". I noticed that the dialogue on MIP was very much like a hybrid of TEoF and TW. Though it lacked the polish really, mostly because there were loads of item names that were squeezed together, just as you would have wanted them. UltimaWeapon, Phoenix Down and imagine the rest that don't fit. He had to cut those words. I don't remember an accurate example, but if there was an Esper called Exdeath, it would have been called Exdeth or Xdeath or some other stupid short version. (or try Catoblepas, it'd get turned into Catblpas)

Back to the point of seeing good fan translations. When I saw FF4 J2e's translation, I noticed right away how detailed and well-made it was, and it even added fun stuff and cool dialogue on it. I think I preferred that translation ever since I got to move Cecil around for a while. "I'm gonna get drunk to forget what we did at Mysidia" and "Stop it! The Cecil I know would never whimper like that. Not the Cecil I love!" were really memorable and excellent lines. That shows that I can begin to prefer a fan translation about right away, EVEN THOUGH I had liked the original FF2 US translation too (because I hadn't seen anything better yet). But anyway, there is one moral learned in this story about J2e. And that is: if the new translation is better than the old, it really shows it and it will be noticed right away. But if it's not, then it looks crappy copying of the old one with text just turned worse. And the 2nd case is the case with SR's. Maybe J2e or RPGe should have done the translation. They probably could have made a good-quality translation.

Well, whatever you say, you can't turn me. Fwa ha. I'm now starting to be as stubborn SOB as you. Heh heh heh. And I've got a limit break action at the end of this post.

I just came from playing Chrono Cross and looked the horrifying scene where (SPOILER)Lucca's houseis burning, and now that I'm pretty angry for Squaresoft for (SPOILER)killingLucca, I play the music Orphanage of Flame (which plays on that same scene), absorb all flames burning (SPOILER)Lucca's houseand blasts all those flames into (SPOILER)Lynxwhose fault all that was, but instead hits The Man with the flames. Ouch, son of a submariner! Oh well, I might as well welcome you to my barbecue. Inferno... meh, I'm not Nintendo-restricted, so I'll just say... Hell Fire!!! And thus I summon Ifrit and give The Man a memorable barbeque. Oh, and greetings from those fire monsters from CC. They might love to play a game of "Lavarush" with you. Buh-bye, and don't forget to read the self-help booklet! *casts Exit, and then Submit Reply*

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Yeah, that line Spatvark quoted was when I was telling what some idiots who flame Woolsey for no reason say

About Shogun, it's as stupid as Hiryuu and Reina. Japanese names which look cool when you don't know what the heck they mean.

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About the script stuff, let me get you something straight. I did read up through that script of Sky Render and I was pretty disappointed with that. Most lines it had were a bit similar to Woolsey's though slightly worse. Meh. Some stuff were absolutely rubbish. I only liked the Eidolon translation but since that's gone, I guess I can wipe my a** on that script.

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And nope, I didn't read FF6 Noah's script before finishing the game. I think I had finished the game at least twice when I first read it. Besides, the fact that I had played Woolsey's version of the game didn't affect my opinion. Oooooh no no no. Because both still tell the same story.

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But I didn't find anything better in SR's version, only worse stuff. Maybe it is a retranslation, but shouldn't it try to be BETTER than the competitive (TW's) translation???

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If you think I haven't played Sky Render's translation, then you're dead wrong. I indeed played the version of "My Insane Project" which was like an alpha version of "The End of Fantasy".

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I noticed that the dialogue on MIP was very much like a hybrid of TEoF and TW. Though it lacked the polish really, mostly because there were loads of item names that were squeezed together, just as you would have wanted them.

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UltimaWeapon, Phoenix Down and imagine the rest that don't fit. He had to cut those words.

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I don't remember an accurate example, but if there was an Esper called Exdeath, it would have been called Exdeth or Xdeath or some other stupid short version. (or try Catoblepas, it'd get turned into Catblpas)

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Back to the point of seeing good fan translations. When I saw FF4 J2e's translation, I noticed right away how detailed and well-made it was, and it even added fun stuff and cool dialogue on it. I think I preferred that translation ever since I got to move Cecil around for a while. "I'm gonna get drunk to forget what we did at Mysidia" and "Stop it! The Cecil I know would never whimper like that. Not the Cecil I love!" were really memorable and excellent lines.

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"Sky Render quote" instead of "Ted Woolsey quote" (And why)

- "Into the golden ocean Figaro Castle nobly descends" instead of "No one can touch the people of Figaro!" (Because "golden ocean" would reinforce "Son of a submariner" if it were still there; also, it sounds nicer)

- "I'm so confused... My head... it feels like it's left my body" instead of "I don't understand... What should I do?" (Guess which version is more descriptive and less vague).

- "Ugh... I can't remember anything... Nothing recent, nothing from the past" instead of "Uhh...I can't remember anything...past or present." (I've heard the phrase "Past or present" one too many times, and I like the sound of Sky Render's version more, anyway).

"Oh my! The king is running away like a petty soldier! This I never expected to see!" instead of "Ackk! Shameful that a king should flee, leaving his people behind! How utterly delightful!" (There's no self-contradiction in Sky Render's version).

- "He vows his allegiance to nobody. His face hidden behind a mask, cold and uncaring, his past is known clearly by him alone" instead of "He owes allegiance to no one, and will do anything for money. He comes and goes like the wind..." (There are two clichés in Woolsey's -- "comes and goes like the wind" and "will do anything for money" -- and Sky Render's version also tells us more about Shadow without spoiling anything about his dreams).

- "Artificially built by the Empire, and specially trained, born a warrior, a Shogun who has fought many battles, and yet, beneath the mask of her rank, she is nobody" instead of "Product of genetic engineering, battle-hardened Magitek Knight, with a spirit as pure as snow..." (SR's version tells us more about Celes, and doesn't use another cliché, e.g. "pure as snow").

- "Thank you, but... If I were to be spotted, and had no way to protect myself... No, I'd rather die here peacefully than be killed out there painfully..." instead of "I'm grateful, but... Even if you got me out, you'd never be able to protect me. No, I think I'm better off here." (Hopefully, the reasons I prefer SR's version here are obvious -- it actually sound credible, and the "peaceful/painful" comparison is powerful, especially given the circumstances Celes was under. Also, it adds to Celes' concern with death that is manifested when she (SPOILER) tries to kill herself if she can't save Cid, and utters "I wish I'd never been... born" in Woolsey's version).

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Originally posted by Ted Woolsey
SOLDIER A: Hey, have you heard?
SOLDIER B: Oh, you mean...
SOLDIER A: Shhh! Quiet down. If Kefka catches us, we're toast.
SOLDIER A: If he drives General Leo out of our battalion, he'll probably become the next general!
SOLDIER B: Don't make me laugh! If someone like him becomes a general, I'll go home!
SOLDIER A: Shhhhh! What if he hears you? You'll be jailed!
SOLDIER B: Alright, alright!
SOLDIER B: Uh, oh... Here he comes... Back to the waiting zone!
KEFKA: Hey, you! You keeping a sharp lookout?
SOLDIER A: Yes, Sir. You're Kefka, correct? How are you, Sir?
KEFKA: Please! Save your petty small talk! Just do your job!
SOLDIER B: Phew...! Someone's gotta put that guy away!
SOLDIER B: I'd like to tell him to his face he's no General Leo!
SOLDIER A: Shhhh! Do I always have to tell you to keep it down?! You're hopeless...!
SOLDIER A: I hate that weirdo, Kefka. I don't even think he's human, not like General Leo...
SOLDIER B: Agreed.

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Originally posted by Sky Render
SOLDIER A: Hey, do you know?
SOLDIER B: You mean the latest gossip?
SOLDIER A: Shh... You're speaking too loud. If Cefca catches us slacking off, we'll be in serious trouble!
SOLDIER A: If Shogun Leo gets called away from this outpost, then Cefca will be the head Shogun here.
SOLDIER B: Don't joke with me. If that wacko becomes our Shogun, I'll go back home. I will!
SOLDIER A: Shh! ...What if he hears you talking like that? He'll have your head cut off!
SOLDIER B: ...I know, I know...
SOLDIER B: ...Uh!? Uh, oh. He's coming this way. We'd better get back to our posts, pronto.
CEFCA: Hey, you two! Are you watching our perimeter carefully, hmm?
SOLDIER A: Uh, huh. You're, uh, you're, aren't you Cefca? Are you in good health?
CEFCA: Hmph. I'm not in the mood for cheap flattery! Got it? Keep watching the perimeter carefully, or you'll regret what I'll do to you!
SOLDIER A: Hmph! That guy looked like he was about to kill me just for talking to him.
SOLDIER B: ...Who does he think he is, huh? He acts like he's better than Shogun Leo, but he's nothing but a faker. It's true!
SOLDIER A: Shh!!! I told you to keep your voice down! ...You are completely hopeless.
SOLDIER A: You know what? That Cefca fellow, he and Leo are both Shoguns, but he's just plain twisted. Seriously, if we're not careful, who knows what he'll do to us?
SOLDIER B: Yeah. I know what you mean.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
That shows that I can begin to prefer a fan translation about right away, EVEN THOUGH I had liked the original FF2 US translation too (because I hadn't seen anything better yet). But anyway, there is one moral learned in this story about J2e. And that is: if the new translation is better than the old, it really shows it and it will be noticed right away.

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But if it's not, then it looks crappy copying of the old one with text just turned worse. And the 2nd case is the case with SR's.

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Maybe J2e or RPGe should have done the translation. They probably could have made a good-quality translation.

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Well, whatever you say, you can't turn me. Fwa ha. I'm now starting to be as stubborn SOB as you. Heh heh heh. And I've got a limit break action at the end of this post.

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Only two things I can say, The Man.

1) "The only way to beat up a stubborn a**hole is to be like that yourself"

So why don't you come to argue Rydia is Lydia and I'll show you who's more stubborn.

2)

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Originally said by Scarlet of FF7
Stuck up to the end, &%¤#$! *slaps*

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I didn't intend to flame you

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Only two things I can say, The Man.

1) "The only way to beat up a stubborn a**hole is to be like that yourself"

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So why don't you come to argue Rydia is Lydia and I'll show you who's more stubborn.

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2)

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Originally said by Scarlet of FF7
Stuck up to the end, &%¤#$! *slaps*

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BTW How did you like my action / limit break tech? I like to use those in #eoff when joking with Cloud of Midgar. For example:

CLOUD: *sends Sephiroth1999AD_Trance into N-Zone*
SEPHIROTH1999AD: "What the!? Oh, not that N-Zone again! It's Cleft of Dimension!"
SEPHIROTH1999AD: *blocks the black hole into N-Zone with Queen Brahne's fat body*

Queen Brahne is a really fat elephant lady, BTW.

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"Ah, but you are. Betray you your thouhts will" - Master Yoda, Star Wars

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Just like you were flaming at everyone in Chrono Trigger forum. Well, that was a warning for you. When you go to CT/CC forums, topics related to both games are inevitable. Remember, The Man. When it rains, it pours.

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*reads The Man's examples*

I didn't have much time to read carefully because I was writing the previous reply in school at 8 AM with the lesson starting at 8.10 AM.

Some of those lines are good, but some of those lines aren't. It's all up to tastes, and I personally prefer Woolsey's translations.

Look man, we can go on with this for ages but in the end, neither of us will give up and this thread gets closed. So "are you trying to get invited into my next barbecue?" (Firebat quote from StarCraft) I hope not, because I'd hate to flame you on the next "barbecue" (interpret the word barbecue in any way you want).

And yes, it is flaming to shout at people and lecture them hard of marking spoilers. I think you've also put a bit un-reasonable ban threats on some people (like in the thread in CT where that one rude guy was saying CT sucks... I disagree with him and I agree he was being rude, but that's not enough to get a ban), please stop it. Usually people who aren't even admins or moderators and threaten the others with banning, usually get in a bit of trouble themselves.

One nice quote which came to my mind. It's related to your way to going to lecture people of spoilers and setting up ban threats.

"He who hasn't commited any sin, may throw the first stone"

No thanks. I'm not throwing that stone on those who say unmarked spoilers or are rude to people. In some way, more or less, we all have said unmarked spoilers or been rude in some way. I hope ya smell what Seph's cooking with that metaphor.

By the way, about spoiler things, it's all up to opinions what is a spoiler, what's not, and how easily they should be marked. Some say it's a spoiler if the name of FF6's main character is (SPOILER)Terra,and some don't think it's a spoiler that Terra is a (SPOILER)hybrid of a human and an Esper.Also, some people don't think the story in FF4 that (SPOILER)FuSoYa is Cecil's uncle and Kluya is Cecil's fatheris a spoiler while some people might say it's even a spoiler that (SPOILER)The Red Wings stole a crystal from the Mysidians.So spoilers is a relative term, it's not too simple to determine it. And on a thread or post that is heavy with spoilers, using the spoiler tags all the time is really tedious, annoying and hard, and there's a chance that the whole post would go under "highlight to view" -format text.


EDIT: Back to what I was saying about our arguement. Because neither of us will never give up, I suggest we just keep our opinions and stop arguing about them. I'll stop messing up facts in threads because of my opinions, and I suggest you do the same (i.e. stop saying "I didn't like how Square turned Tina into Terra, Sabin into Mash, Ghastla/ghastly into Gestahl, Cayenne into Cyan, Môgri into Moogle blah blah blah", because I've heard you saying that in at least 7 different threads already)

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
*reads The Man's examples*

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I didn't have much time to read carefully because I was writing the previous reply in school at 8 AM with the lesson starting at 8.10 AM.

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Some of those lines are good, but some of those lines aren't. It's all up to tastes, and I personally prefer Woolsey's translations.

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Look man, we can go on with this for ages but in the end, neither of us will give up and this thread gets closed. So "are you trying to get invited into my next barbecue?" (Firebat quote from StarCraft) I hope not, because I'd hate to flame you on the next "barbecue" (interpret the word barbecue in any way you want).

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And yes, it is flaming to shout at people and lecture them hard of marking spoilers.

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I think you've also put a bit un-reasonable ban threats on some people (like in the thread in CT where that one rude guy was saying CT sucks... I disagree with him and I agree he was being rude, but that's not enough to get a ban), please stop it. Usually people who aren't even admins or moderators and threaten the others with banning, usually get in a bit of trouble themselves.

One nice quote which came to my mind. It's related to your way to going to lecture people of spoilers and setting up ban threats.

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"He who hasn't commited any sin, may throw the first stone"

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No thanks. I'm not throwing that stone on those who say unmarked spoilers or are rude to people. In some way, more or less, we all have said unmarked spoilers or been rude in some way. I hope ya smell what Seph's cooking with that metaphor.

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By the way, about spoiler things, it's all up to opinions what is a spoiler, what's not, and how easily they should be marked. Some say it's a spoiler if the name of FF6's main character is (SPOILER)Terra,and some don't think it's a spoiler that Terra is a (SPOILER)hybrid of a human and an Esper.Also, some people don't think the story in FF4 that (SPOILER)FuSoYa is Cecil's uncle and Kluya is Cecil's fatheris a spoiler while some people might say it's even a spoiler that (SPOILER)The Red Wings stole a crystal from the Mysidians.So spoilers is a relative term, it's not too simple to determine it. And on a thread or post that is heavy with spoilers, using the spoiler tags all the time is really tedious, annoying and hard, and there's a chance that the whole post would go under "highlight to view" -format text.

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EDIT: Back to what I was saying about our arguement. Because neither of us will never give up, I suggest we just keep our opinions and stop arguing about them. I'll stop messing up facts in threads because of my opinions, and I suggest you do the same (i.e. stop saying "I didn't like how Square turned Tina into Terra, Sabin into Mash, Ghastla/ghastly into Gestahl, Cayenne into Cyan, Môgri into Moogle blah blah blah", because I've heard you saying that in at least 7 different threads already)

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Originally posted by The Man
I've other examples. Would you get angered if I shared them with you?

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OOC:

quote: Originally posted by The Man Marking your spoilers is a consideration you give others. [SARCASM]And I'm sure screaming angry comments like "Mark those spoilers, you [insert angry words here]!" is a consideration you give to the others as well.[/SARCASM] For more complicated situations of spoilers, would you think it's a spoiler that *FF6 spoilers ahead* (SPOILER)Shadow has secret dreams that you can see when you sleep at innsor that there's the (SPOILER)World of Ruin in FF6, or that (SPOILER)Daryl died in an airship crash and Setzer took her airship on her tomb?Would you think those spoilers should be marked? quote: Originally posted by The Man it takes all of five seconds, at the most, to mark them. Let's see... [ spoiler ] took me 3 seconds to type. The [ /spoiler ] would probably take me 4 seconds to type because not only I need to use Alt and numerals to do the [ and ] chars and I also need to hold Shift while pressing the / char. So 7 seconds at minimum. Then putting all things into consideration which of the text to put inside spoiler marks, and how widely use the spoiler marks (that was a big problem in my post at CC thread in "Discussion of CT PSX ending" thread), and worrying about all stylistic details like putting question marks, commas etc inside the spoiler tags takes a while of time too, due to that considering. And of course, you need time to write the text that will be within the spoiler tags. Excluding the time to write the text within spoiler tags but including the time you need to design the intelligent and proper use of spoiler tags, I'd say it takes people more than five seconds to mark their spoilers. quote: Originally posted by The Man But here we are, talking about another thread. Can we say "OOC"? Already ahead of you

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Originally posted by The Man
All I really want to hear you say is that there are good things in Sky Render's version other than the names.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Thanks, but no thanks. I still have the script myself too.

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When did I say the name changes of SR's version were a good thing? O_O The Eidolon thing was the only name change I probably liked (because it was FF9-related...

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though it was a minor thing, it should have actually been Phantom/Fantastic Beast or Esper and the Eidolon was turned into Phantom Beast later anyway... BTW before you accused me for conflicting by first saying Eidolon was bad, then saying it was good. Well, I never said it was bad. I just said it should have been something else, although I liked it the way it was)

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Good translations? Well, there was one that I think I liked. It was when that prostitute girl (SR should have named her Brittney Spears and I would have loved that scene!) comes to Cyan and tries to seduce him, then Cyan yells "Get off me, y-you SLUT!" I found that comment slightly amusing.

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Translation by Sky Render
LOOSE GIRL: Hey, pops. Care to have some fun with me? Come on!
CAYENNE: W,w,w,w,w,why you slut! Get your hands off of me!
LOOSE GIRL: Stop being so stiff. You'll enjoy it. Promise, boyfriend.
CAYENNE: B,b,b,b,b,boyfriend?!
MASH: Cayenne, buddy, don't let it bug you.
CAYENNE: H, how can you be so calm?
MASH: I deal with this sort of thing all the time. I happen to know quite a bit on the subject of women.
LOOSE GIRL: Don't be tight-lipped. Hehe...
CAYENNE: D, damn. Listen. There is a thing we call "decency". You should be more modest, so you don't embarrass yourself. And furthermore... And... And then, too...
(Loose Girl) Yeah, yeah.

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Translation by Ted Woolsey; stupid censorship by Nintendo of America
DANCER: Yoo hoo! You handsome thing. How 'bout joining me? Tee hee!
CYAN: H...how dare you... you licentious howler!
DANCER: Geez, don't blow an artery, baby!
CYAN: B_baby?!
SABIN: Cyan... Don't let it get to you.
CYAN: I'm not like that!
SABIN: No one thinks you are. Just let it go.
DANCER: Stop whispering! My ears are burnin', baby!
CYAN: Enough! Have you no shame? I'll have you know... etc... etc.
(Dancer) Goodness!

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Originally posted by The Man
You have to press Shift while pressing "/" and Alt while pressing "[ ]"? Finland must not have the same keyboard we have in America, then. Our keyboard looks like this:

`1234567890-=[bksp]
[tab]qwertyuiop[]\
[caps lock]asdfghjkl;'[enter]
[shift]zxcvbnm,./[shift]

Yep. For most people, it wouldn't take nearly that long.

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Fair enough. Americans won't have that problem, though, so it'll take them much less.

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SR's version of that scene is definitely better

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Am I sensing covered racism around here!? O_O We have the same keyboard, dag nabbit! But surely you know that messing with Shift and Alt keys while writing takes some of cautiousity. And that makes it take longer. Otherwise you might accidentally type some things wrong.

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You guys don't need to hold Shift to do the / line? Oh wait, even I can do it on my NumPad with /*-+ signs. Meh. But do you say you Americans can do [ and ] without holding Alt Gr and then pressing a number button.

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Ohhh, no, no, no! You're forgetting something very important so I suggest you edit that post right away. The corrected form is:

SR's version of that scene is definitely better in my (The Man's) humble opinion. I call it "considerate" that you keep the "IMHO" tags and don't try to affect or brainwash me with your claims, even though they don't have any impact on me.

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Meh, I get faster with [ ] the more I use them. It works for me with AltGr-8 for [ and AltGr-9 for ]. The åäö and ÅÄÖ don't need any HTML coding or any ASCII character stuff, I can just press them easily. I also didn't notice the < button on your keyb. Pressing that button makes < , holding shift and pressing it does > and holding AltGr and the button makes | . You know, a straight upward line. But worry not for the [ ] tag stuff, I can still write them faster than you post your replies.

Alright, enough of jokes on this post. Time for serious stuff. Yes please, edit your post to say that only in your opinion it's better. It's really simple. Just write "IMHO" without quotation marks at the beginning or at the end of the opinion. I call it being considerate. And really, make haste. Surely you don't want to be like those in CC threads that you flamed for not marking spoilers and after being lectured, still refusing to edit post and mark them. Fwahahahaha! *whacks Exdeath because of that stupid laugh*

OOC:

quote: Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD Meh, I get faster with [ ] the more I use them. It works for me with AltGr-8 for [ and AltGr-9 for ]. The åäö and ÅÄÖ don't need any HTML coding or any ASCII character stuff, I can just press them easily. I also didn't notice the < button on your keyb. Pressing that button makes < , holding shift and pressing it does > and holding AltGr and the button makes | . You know, a straight upward line. But worry not for the [ ] tag stuff, I can still write them faster than you post your replies. Really? Then again, since my replies are often five pages long, that's to be expected. They say "practice makes perfect," so it's understandable that the [/] stuff gets easier. I'm not sure if ANYTHING can be PERFECT, but meh.

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Alright, enough of jokes on this post. Time for serious stuff. Yes please, edit your post to say that only in your opinion it's better. It's really simple. Just write "IMHO" without quotation marks at the beginning or at the end of the opinion.

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I call it being considerate. And really, make haste. Surely you don't want to be like those in CC threads that you flamed for not marking spoilers and after being lectured, still refusing to edit post and mark them.

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Fwahahahaha! *whacks Exdeath because of that stupid laugh*

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
As a side-note, I'd like to defend Woolsey's Masamune thing. In Chrono Cross, Woolsey's idea was key to one weapon translation. There's Masamune again, and it's a bit katana-style, actually!

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The Masamune of CC has something do with Masa, Mune and Doreen but I won't spoil it. But with Grand and Lion, and Dream, that would have looked pretty bad name for a mighty weapon. Grand Dream Lion? Bleh.

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Returning back to the original topic, here's some praise for Ted Woolsey:

That pic was from the "Son of a submariner" scene actually. And you know, The Man, that was actually to show my opinion, but since "pics say more than 1000 words", I thought I'd say that I prefer Woolsey over SR in a small pic, without doing a mega-long essay (like you've done about SR over TW on this thread).

By the way, did I just read through your long reply too fast or did you actually flame me on that? *reads again* Yup, yes you did. Tisk tisk.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
That pic was from the "Son of a submariner" scene actually. And you know, The Man, that was actually to show my opinion, but since "pics say more than 1000 words", I thought I'd say that I prefer Woolsey over SR in a small pic, without doing a mega-long essay (like you've done about SR over TW on this thread).

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By the way, did I just read through your long reply too fast or did you actually flame me on that? *reads again* Yup, yes you did. Tisk tisk.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth1999AD
I always use the default names.

Why did they use the capitals anyway? It just didn't have any use. Though maybe it gave a feel that when the characters spoke, they put emphasis on the names with their talks. For example, Locke's line "Neither of them will save CELES!". Could be another of Woolsey's weird ideas. Son of a submariner! (BTW Maybe that line is even worse than "Spoony Bard!")

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